Why We Must Sleep Better with
Baby Whisperer Elaine Harvey
Why We Must Sleep Better with
Baby Whisperer Elaine Harvey
Felicity Cohen: Hello, I’m Felicity Cohen. I’m so excited to introduce you to my Wellness Warriors Podcast. For over 20 years, I’ve been a passionate advocate for helping thousands of Australians find solutions to treating obesity and health-related complications through surgical intervention and holistic managed care.
My podcast is dedicated to all the people past, present, and future who have helped shape my journey and continue to inspire me to work consistently to achieve a healthier Australia in both adults and future generations. I hope you enjoy it.
Today, I’d like to welcome to my Wellness Warriors Podcast, Elaine Harvey..
Elaine is a pediatric sleep consultant originally from Ireland. I think sleep is such a vital subject for us to talk about when it comes to wellness and wellbeing. And it’s one of the biggest things that I talk to patients about every single day of my life.
I often think that, you know, sleep, stress, sugar, there are the three S’s that often go hand in hand. Today, I’m really excited to talk to you all about what you do to set that foundation for sleeping behavior patterns, and working with people who have issues with their newborns and with children. Let’s start, first of all, Elaine, tell us a little bit about you and how did you actually end up working as a pediatric sleep consultant?
Elaine Harvey: Thanks for that introduction. So how I got into it was really I kind of fell into it to be honest with you. So I’ve grown up in a very large family, always had kids around us and I was always basically the local babysitter. Never actually saw that as a career choice. And I had studied interior design and I’d always assumed that I would be doing something with people.
Cause I’m a bit of a people person. I like to, my husband calls me the social butterfly. Well, in about 2000, my husband and I, we were dating at the time, we moved to London and I started working as a nanny in London. And that was the first time that I really recognized working with children as a career option for me.
And I’ve quickly kind of moved into working as a maternity nurse in the UK. So as a maternity nurse in the UK, what we used to do would be, I would do 24 hours a day, 6 days a week, care of mum and baby for the first 12 weeks of the baby’s life. And then, and basically establish a routine, establish feeding, and be there to support mum in that first 12 weeks of life.
So it was a wonderful thing for a parent to have. But for me, it was, I would work with one family and have a baby basically sleeping through the night with one feed at night and they get on a pretty good routine, then I take a week off and then I’d go and work with another family. So for years I was like rotating this conveyor belt of new babies.
So by the time we moved here in 2006, I was exhausted. That was a 26 year old that looked like I was 36. I had wrinkles across my face and I was so exhausted from what I’d been doing. And just the relentlessness of new baby, new baby, new baby. As you can imagine, as any mum can imagine what that first three months of having a new baby is like.
So I started working in a childcare center. I actually worked at Kids on Fourth at Palm Beach. And they looked at my resume and put me in the nursery room and I’d never worked in a group setting. I’d always had that lovely one-on-one care. So when I went into this group setting and I had all these different routines, it was really confronting. And I just didn’t know how I could manage these different babies, different ages and different routines and still give really good quality of care to these babies. So I asked all the parents, if I could just put their babies on my routine, and let me see if I can improve the sleep overall for everybody.
So within two weeks I had all of my babies on a beautiful routine. They were all sleeping better. I have all of them sleeping at the same time in the nursery room. And we were getting, everyone was getting great sleep. And one of the mums had come in and said to me, “Wow! Well, we go to sleep school to do that.”
Well, first of all, we had mums saying, how did you get these babies to sleep? How did you do, how’d you get them all to sleep? And they’d said that their sleep was improving at home as well. And one of the mums had said to me, well, we go to sleep school to teach babies how to sleep. And I thought that was a really bizarre concept.
So this is back in 2007. And there weren’t sleep consultants or pediatric sleep consultants here in Australia. I think I was one of the first two in the whole of Australia. But I, when this lady told me that we’d go to the hospital to teach her baby how to sleep. I was like “oh no. I’ll show you how to do it at home.”
And that’s where Lullaby SOS started. It was that I knew I could teach the babies how to sleep, but I didn’t know how to tell the parents. So for the next two years, I basically worked within the community, with any mums that were happy to have the help, to show them how they could support their babies.
And over that time I developed my program and the rest is history. So it’s been going on for quite a long time now.
Felicity Cohen: I think that’s absolutely fantastic. And I’m sure that for so many families, you know, you’ve changed the lives of how that family unit functions, how the mums function. Life changes when you have good sleep behavior.
And I think, you know, bringing it back to that foundation of what are we doing with children and getting them to sleep better. And I actually, we have a childhood obesity prevention program for children and adolescents called Project GRIT, which is one of my passions in this space having worked with adults for so many years, working with children is a big passion of mine.
And I know that sleep deprivation or poor quality sleep leads to so many problems such as, you know, weight related issues. And I also think that for the mums that you’re working with so frequently, often what happens is that they tend to put themselves last, working with children, they might have one, two or three kids, wake up 10 years later and all of a sudden, “Oh my goodness, I’ve got 10 or 15 kilos to lose, but I haven’t had that structure around how things function well in my family life.” Do you think that’s a big problem in terms of learning routine, right from the beginning and coming back to that, and that we’ve become a little bit too, I guess, a bit complacent that the “anything for peace” approach, let kids stay up until they can drop dead and fall asleep at night.
What do you think?
Elaine Harvey: I think that there’s so many little points in there that like the first thing is that when mums, mums will put everybody else before herself. We hear all the time, you know, if you’re on an airplane, put your mask on first before everybody else’s and that’s just not a mums’ prerogative.
“I make sure that everybody else is fed and watered and happy and content emotionally, physically, everything, before I even dream of looking at what’s going on for myself.” Yeah. So when that happens, a mum, it’s amazing how much a mum can put themselves through and still get through every day. And I say get through, because some of those days, we’re not really enjoying because we’re just surviving, because we’re trying to manage everybody else and what is happening or what I see so often is obviously your body is just going into that fight and flight mode, and your sympathetic nervous system is in overdrive and you’re, even if you try to lose weight, and when your body’s like that, your body is not going to, because your body is in survival mode.
So when you’re not looking after yourself, then you’re not going to be able to achieve anything in the weight loss area. But when we’re looking after our children and where we’re suffering all the time through all of that, then it’s very difficult to find the time to look after yourself. I definitely see mums trying so hard to find a good routine for their babies or for their children, trying so hard to establish positive bedtime routines and get that good sleep for their babies. But they’re so confused about how they should do that. And they’ve lost the confidence in how to parent their children because of information overwhelm. Or, and because of everybody else’s opinion and they are losing trust in themselves to know what’s right for their children as well, which is just heartbreaking for me to see.
And one of the biggest things that I see through when I do consultations with my parents, is taking away the overwhelm, and helping them know what to focus on for their children rather than having all of the information at hand and picking little bits from this and a little bit from that, a little bit from this.
When we do our consultation, we look at what’s going on in that family. We’re able to just hone in on exactly what’s working, what’s not working. And by giving the parent that focus, then they’ve got the confidence. And when they’ve got the confidence, they do amazing things.
Felicity Cohen: So powerful. And I really relate to that comment that you made about the information overwhelm. That’s I think a state that we see so many families are in and it’s very difficult to unravel, you know, how to sort of navigate their way through life. Forget that they’ve just got a new baby and they probably got a couple of other kids to deal with as well, but that becomes a really confusing situation. Do you see, are you looking after children as they get older? You know, once they pass the babies, are you also helping older children as well with families that are having problems?
And give me a couple of examples of families where you’ve seen some really good outcomes that you’ve worked with.
Elaine Harvey:Wow. There’s so many. I do work with children. So the majority of the kids that I work with, obviously up to about two years of age, then we’ve got the two year olds to say four, where they’re playing musical beds at night time and usually by school age, most of the kids are on a good routine and they’ve really settled down. And usually at that stage, then their overnight sleep cycles have started to deepen and they start sleeping better through the night or what works for that family.
I am currently working with a six year old. Oh, no nine year old. I’m currently working with a nine year old. So I do work with school-aged kids, but they had definitely fewer and further between. Some of my most memorable, I have got so many amazing stories about babies. I think like you said, one of the biggest things that I love about what I do is the impact that it has on parents and families long-term. I will have parents message me five years later and say, “you do not understand how much of an impact you had on our family and how highly we praise you in our family,” which is just lovely to think that years on I’m still making a difference, or they say, you know, “we used you five years ago and I’ve given the information to my sister-in-law and now she’s doing really well. And I can’t thank you enough forward,” you know, just that simple, practical advice.
But one of my most memorable ones was a baby that I worked with down in Canberra several years ago. And. We had arranged the consultation over text message. And we had done it because mum couldn’t talk to me because she was underneath her baby in the bedroom the whole time.
So she couldn’t find the time to get out of the room. And she had a lot of food allergies and so had her son and her son had also got really severe reflux. So when I arrived at the home, I’d never met this woman. And I was about to spend three days with her, her husband and her son.
And that first settle in that first 12 hours were just heartbreaking because of how physically exhausted she was. She had lost so much weight because what she couldn’t eat with her food intolerances, and then what she couldn’t eat because of her son. And then she was breastfeeding all the time. So her diet consisted of tuna, brown rice and apples, and had been that way for about six months.
And then within 24 hours, the first day and that first “settle,” we’re teaching her son how to settle. We were there with him the whole time and I was leaning over and pat and comforting him in the cart to try and help him fall asleep in the cart. And I could hear his reflux obviously. And it was that, we had to help him learn to sleep, supported, but as he was getting upset, he was refluxing. And it was the point of it’s the chicken or the egg. We had to fix the sleep so that we could regulate, if he was getting better sleep, that was going to regulate his food intake, his digestive system, which was going to improve the reflux. But while we were fixing the sleep, he was feeling a little bit yucky or from the reflux. He made such a huge turnaround within 24 hours that you know, on the third day we were just celebrating and mum and dad, just how relieved they were to have mum out of the bedroom and being able to sit down and have a meal with her husband, without having to sit in the dark, eating rice and tuna while her son was attached to her.
So, and there’s many stories, I’ve heard so many stories like that. And that’s why I’m so passionate about helping parents to understand that early childhood sleep foundations are really important and how we teach them how to sleep is the way they’re going to learn long-term.
I think that’s absolutely phenomenal, what a beautiful story and what an incredible impact that you’ve had on that family. And I think it’s so interesting the connection from sleep to digestive issues, you know, dietary implications. And what impact does that have on behavior, on how you feel, on your mood and how everything kind of connects throughout the day and it has this flow on effect, doesn’t it? Right throughout the day.
This is something that I think is so important to come back to the basics, the foundations, and looking at well, we need to develop good sleep patterns and behavior patterns for children right from the outset. And hopefully by doing that, we’re setting them up for success ongoing.
One of the things that you mentioned there was the routine of musical beds. And I think you know, that for some parents is a huge challenge. And I see it also in people I know you know, you’re, you’re looking after a nine year old at the moment, but I see that also in children. It seems to be getting a little bit older and older in terms of management of that situation. How damaging do you think that can be when you know, you’ve got this musical bed routine and you’ve got mum and dads swapping beds, and the children swapping beds, and there’s this whole kind of charade going on right throughout the night.
How do you break that habit? How do you get the child to sleep in its own room when it’s had this ongoing routine for such a long time?
Elaine Harvey: First, if it’s not a problem, it’s not a problem. So I often say for anybody, if you are really happy with, you’re playing that musical beds, that’s absolutely fine. Okay. And I’m not here to tell you what to do, but if it’s not okay for your marriage, for your relationship, for your child, well, then, doing something about it and actually making conscious steps to do something about it.
One story that I will share is that I was working with a client whose husband was a musician and did a lot of travels through Europe.
And they had a daughter who, while she was young, they traveled a lot with her, with the band. And she had always co-slept with them and that was fine. And then as she got older, it continued. And when she was 12, no, when she was 14, her mum and dad decided that they were going to have another baby.
I’d say, I guess she was 14 when they had the second baby and they had kind of gotten to the point where mum was like, “I am not making the same mistake with my new baby.” So I’d come to do an overnight consultation with mum. And during that consultation, we had to get Nan to come and sleep with the 14 year old, because the 14 year old had never slept by herself.
And her anxiety levels were so high that she couldn’t physically sleep by herself without having huge anxiety. So while mum was trying, so usually mum, daughter and baby were in the bed together, but because we were working on the baby, she’d gotten Nan to come in and help. And dad had kind of said “What? I don’t want to be sleeping with my daughter at this age because that’s just weird.”
So we have to do something about this. But that night, when we got up to look after the baby, Nan had heard us and she’d snuck out to come and say hi. And within five minutes of her coming out, the 14 year old came swimming through the hallway, anxious about where Nan was gone. This was at two o’clock in the morning.
So this 14 year old had sensed that Nan was gone and had gotten anxious. But that’s obviously not in my realm of dealing with, but what I saw there was this poor girl who’s had no self regulation skills and she needed to have that attachment with somebody else because she didn’t know how to manage her own emotions.
So, I definitely, and that’s an extreme case. I don’t think I’ve worked with, I’ve seen anyone like that before, but yeah, those sorts of things can happen. And it is in learning how to self-regulate is an important skill. It’s not something that you have to absolutely have when you were a newborn, but we build our foundations for everything that we learn for the rest of our life within the first two years of our life, and then we build on top of that. And if we can get the foundations right, then everything else is easy. If you ask a builder, what happens if you don’t get your foundations? Right. Well then there’s going to be something that’s impacted later on.
Felicity Cohen: Yeah, I think that anxiety is a big issue and, you know, not allowing the child to develop, you know resilience, self-confidence and independence
Yeah. Or everything that relates to that self-regulation can become a problem. So totally respect and understand that setting the foundation early is so important. And I hope that our conversation today is going to help, you know, lots of other people think about how they can actually establish that.
Something else that I see in children and especially in the children that we’ve been treating and helping manage through our Project GRIT is devices. Device technology is a big issue and that sending a child to bed on an iPad or with a phone, you know, the blue light and all those problems and I know it’s a problem for adults as well who have those concerns, but with children, it’s that allowing that exposure to too much time on devices can also be very negative in terms of impact on sleep behaviour.
Elaine Harvey: And she’ll give her toddler, the tablet to watch something while feeding her baby. And hey, look, if that works, that’s fine, you know, because if she’s able to give her toddler that time to sit in his bed or sit on her bed and watch an episode of Paw Patrol, why mum can feed baby and then put baby down and then close the iPad and take her toddler into his room and read a couple of stories, spend some time connecting and then get them down. Fantastic. Yeah. Devices are always an issue that always an issue and the less that we’ve got them, the better.
Felicity Cohen: So for me, in our patient population, we’re dealing with adult obesity, overweight and obesity issues. And one of the big things for me that we see in our patients every single day are concerns around sleep.
And what that looks like is often sleep apnoea, which can be a silent, deadly disease. It can lead to multiple other co-morbidities such as Type 2 diabetes, stroke, heart attack. As you would be aware from your nursing background that sleep apnoea is a dangerous disease. And I just think that if we come back to the basics and the foundations that maybe we’d be avoiding some of these problems later on in life.
You know, addressing the sleepy shoes. The other thing that I see in an adult population is what happens when people are not sleeping well whether it’s mild sleep apnoea or just not getting good quality sleep when there’s stress involved. And, you know, I mentioned earlier the Sleep, Stress, Suger, I think they often the three S’s often do go together.
Elaine Harvey: There should be a C in there for caffeine too.
Felicity Cohen: I’m not giving that up, I can’t live without my coffee.
But I think it really is important to kind of stress how that impacts someone’s life as they grow through adulthood. For me, what I see often when that cycle of behavior with sleep apnoea is that your poor quality sleep, low daytime energy, reach for the next quick fix to get you through that day and that cycle of behavior is so hard to break. And then conversely, what we see is once patients start to regain their health and wellbeing and through weight loss, sleep is all of a sudden better. And life moves forward.
Elaine Harvey: Sleep is always going to be better with sleep apnoea when you lose weight obviously, that’s all.
Well, it’s one of the biggest fix key factors for sleep apnoea. For, like we touched on earlier. I don’t think there’s any way that you can possibly lose any weight if you’re tired. If you’re stressed and you’re tired, you’re exhausted. What ends up happening is that you will go on a weight loss program, you will try and eat healthy. You’ll feel depleted because you’re tired and you’re not getting the sugar fixes that you were getting. And you’re also not seeing the results on the scales, which is demoralizing and you just go, oh, it’s just too hard. So I’ll just keep doing what I was doing because I just can’t get out of that cycle and I’m tired. So there’s nothing I can do about it because I have this situation at home.
So I know that for me, I’m very lucky. I’ve never struggled with my weight. But in my job, I’ve had a lot of health issues because of the work that I do. For example, that client that I spoke about in Canberra, my daughter was about three years old at the time. So I was a very busy young mum, running my own business, have a baby at home. I was working night shifts every night, but looking after my daughter and I thought I’ve got the best of both worlds because you know, my baby’s sleeping while I’m working and I’m looking after my child when I’m not. And I’d also have her at daycare two days a week, but slowly, slowly, slowly, my health was suffering.
And I thought that I would, as many mums do, it’s like, “Ugh, whatever. I’ll just have a nervous breakdown. And then, you know, I’ll sort it out then.”
But when I was in Canberra, I lost my hearing. I went completely deaf in my right ear, just dropped out like that and I didn’t know what happened. I had to go to the hospital and it happened four more times over the next six months where I’d completely lose my hearing for hours. And I literally was just given steroids to go home and fix it.
I also found that I was having trouble seeing around bends when I was driving. Everything would just go blurry and foggy on me. I didn’t put these two things together and it wasn’t until one night when I was sitting down with my husband and I burnt my arm, but I hadn’t known I’d burnt it.
So I had a big burn mark across my arm and I hadn’t seen it. And my husband looked at me, “so what happened to your arm?” And I went, “Yeah. Hmm. I don’t know.” And I could pinch my skin and I could feel it, but I didn’t feel the burn. And we all know what even a tiny burn feels like. So automatically I went to the doctor anyway, long story short was they thought that I had MS.
And after doing some tests, they realized that I was just so tired and exhausted that my body was slowly shutting down and I was showing symptoms of MS. Because I was so tired and, you know, being a mum, my husband’s got Crohn’s disease, so we were thinking two parents with autoimmune conditions, then we have to do something about this.
So I took some time off and I worked very hard over that next year to slow down. And anytime I got symptoms after that, I would scratch. So, this is how they were triggers for me, that I knew that when I was getting over tired, that I would scratch my arms and it would just be an uncontrollable scratch.
And then I would take some time off, but it’s still stupidly, we’re still as mums, battling, battling, battling, battling. And it wasn’t really until COVID hit, that I really changed everything about how I function and actually prioritise myself for the first time in my life. I’d actually put some priority onto me and my health.
And that’s silly cause I’m like, this was seven years later after I’d first been diagnosed or suspected of having MS. It still took me seven years to put myself first. And it’s a really hard thing, mums, really, we just put everyone else before ourselves.
Felicity Cohen: What an incredible lesson
It’s kind of the ultimate dichotomy. You know, that the sleep consultant is the one who’s the most sleep deprived and exhausted, and then sees the impact of what that looks like. You must have learned so much from all of that. And I also agree that this, the whole big COVID situation, the state that so many people were in has led a lot of people to actually really value more and more their health and wellbeing and understand that they need to prioritise yourself.
And there’s a lot of need for self love and self care and managing your own wellbeing is even more and more critical now. You must’ve learned a lot from that personal experience that you now take back into your professional world and how you function. What do you think was the biggest lesson for you that you actually are able to teach mums now?
Elaine Harvey: There’s so many little lessons that, all these lessons, I was still teaching mums. I just wasn’t listening to them. I wasn’t listening to what I was teaching my mums about eat well, look after your own health, out when your baby sleeps. I don’t tell mums to sleep when baby sleeps, cause let’s be honest, that doesn’t happen.
But if you are at time is just going, when they’re asleep, I’m going to lie on the sofa for half an hour, or I’m going to take that time to have a cup of tea and scroll through my Instagram, if that’s your self care. Hiding in the toilet for five minutes is not self care. That’s a cry for help. And any mum that sees, like hiding away from the children four or five minutes. Cause you see these Instagram posts that say, you know “Mum self care is five minutes on the toilet or a shower alone in peace.”
That’s not self-care. That’s should be a God-given right or human right is trying to give yourself proper self care.
And that this last year, I’ve really prioritised, giving myself a break and realising that my family have to come first. My health has to come first and amazingly the things like changing the way I exercise and the fact that now that I’m not pounding pavements, running or do hit workouts or anything like that. My weight hasn’t suffered at all from it. If anything it’s so much more stable. And not having to get those sugar fixes or, you know, feeling like you’ve hit three o’clock in the afternoon, just want to binge eat, or just want to reach for the glass of wine. I definitely feel that even though I’m doing so much less physically, my weight is so much better.
I think I waffled a bit there.
Felicity Cohen: I think it’s all about how you self manage and reading those cues. And maybe you were adrenally fatigued, that you needed to change that yin yang kind of combination of what was right for your body at the time. And incidental movement we know is so important as well.
Moving your body every day is important, but maybe it was for you time for a bit of a change of direction in how you approach that.
Elaine Harvey: I think I read Dr. Libby Weaver’s book “The Rushing Woman Syndrome” and I cried so much through it because I was like, that’s me, that’s me, that’s me, that’s me. And really took on board the breathing, you know, stop and breathe, cut down the caffeine, instead of doing a hit workout and do some yoga.
If your body’s already stressed, then putting more stress on it by doing a hit workout is not going to do you any favours. And I’ve seen that. I’ve seen that in my own body and I’ve seen that in my own head space, how I’m feeling because of it. And one of the biggest things coming through is if I show you here, can you see all of this new hair growth? That’s all from coming out of that adrenal fatigue and stress and having full night’s sleep consistently. That’s one physical thing that I can look in the mirror every day and I seen all this hair coming through and I can go “What you’re doing. You’re on the right track.”
Felicity Cohen: Oh, I love that. And our patients are going to love that because often what happens for bariatric patients undergoing surgery is in the early stages of significant and rapid weight loss, they might have some hair loss and it’s a big issue for them. And we know it’s going to grow back, but it’s a big problem.
And one of those things is managing all of those aspects of lifestyle around that to achieve that regrowth.
As an adult you know, you’ve got great techniques in teaching mums, how to get their babies to sleep well. What do you, what tips do you have in place for getting a better night sleep or better quality sleep as an adult, do you use?
For me, I use things like CALM as an app on my phone, or I might use, I think breathworks are so powerful and we learn more and more about, you know, how to breathe better and what kind of breath work techniques we can use for relaxation, for de-stressing and probably for sleep.
What are some of your top tips?
Elaine Harvey:It’s funny because I did a podcast recently with Romita, Elevate. And she worked with pre-teen, teenagers and we talked about how the similarities between babies and twins, and sleep hygiene. And it’s exactly the same for adults too. It doesn’t really change what we need, we need a good routine at bedtime, and you need to have that wind down. So as an adult and for me, it’s having some relaxing time, once the kids have gone to bed, trying not to work in the evening, shutting down my phone for at least an hour before going to bed, going and having a shower.
Sometimes I might have a shower in the afternoon, but I will usually go and have a shower before I’m going to bed, get my jammies on, my moisturiser and then jump into bed. And I’ve usually got a book or a podcast that I will listen to or read so that I can actually get my head out of everyday life because you know, if you’re finding it difficult to shut down, just putting your brain into fantasy or fiction or something else is going to allow you some time to just get away from that. And if I’m listening to a story or a podcast, it’s good to just lie there, listen, focus on what I’m listening to. And I’ll usually do it for about 10 or 15 minutes, and then I’ll turn it off. And if I’m having difficulty sleeping from there, I breathe and I think adults do struggle too. And I know that it took a lot of practice for me to learn how to just take some long, deep breaths. And you know, even when I’m telling parents settling their babies, if they’re feeling stressed, I want you to just stop and concentrate on five deep breaths. Do five deep breaths and then have a break from the concentration of that.
Cause yeah, it can be a bit hard and then do it again. And I take that on when I’m going to bed. So the basics principles of good sleep hygiene, regardless of whether or not you’re two months, two years or 40 years, you just need to have a nice routine that is geared towards relaxation and shutting your mind and your body down.
Felicity Cohen: Yeah, it sounds so simple, but so valuable. And it really is a critical key in improving how we live our quality of life. How you wake up in the morning, how you function every single day, everything changes when you get a good night’s sleep.
It has been an absolute pleasure having you here today. I think there’s so many takeaways or
Elaine Harvey: Awesome, it’s been lovely to be here.
Felicity Cohen: Thank you so much. I asked one key question before you go. Elaine, what does wellness mean to you?
Elaine Harvey: Looking after yourself and your family. Yeah. Big thing is taking some time to prioritise your own health first.
Felicity Cohen: Thank you so much. So many takeaways today, and I love the attitude of really prioritising yourself. Self care and your family, they’re so critical and thinking about sleep hygiene, I’ve learnt so much from listening to you today, and I can’t stress enough the value of good quality sleep and a good night’s sleep. Thank
Elaine Harvey: Thank you. Awesome
Felicity Cohen: Thank you for joining the Wellness Warriors Podcast. It’s been a pleasure to have you online with us.
If you enjoy the series, please leave your review, subscribe and follow it. And we look forward to sharing many more stories with you in this.
Thank you for joining the Wellness Warriors Podcast. It’s been a pleasure to have you online with us.
If you enjoy the series, please leave your review, subscribe and follow it. And we look forward to sharing many more stories with you in the future.